All posts in the topic Google Transit Feeds (Short link)
Summary
- There are 12 posts — by 7 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Mike Riversdale at Apr 14 18:58 NZST
Hi All, I made an official information request to Auckland to speed up the publishing of the Google Transit Feed data. The link on the Data Catalogue can be found here - http://cat.open.org.nz/2010/04/13/auckland-google-transit-feed/ Wellington's dataset is here - http://cat.open.org.nz/2010/01/12/metlink-google-transit-feed/ I'm not sure if Christchurch or any other city has this data available or not.
Thanks Glen, This will be useful for inputting transit data into something I just came across called Walk Score <http://www.WalkScore.com>. A tool I came across called "City-Go-Round", as well as spotlighting transit apps, does for the U.S. what what you were asking: which Transit agencies do or dont provide Open Data Some links that may be of interest below. Cheers, Carl WalkScore <http://www.walkscore.com/>.com which aggregates amenity proximity including transit to provide a walkability ranking for any address. "We hope real estate listings will eventually read: *2 bedroom, 1 bathroom, 1,000 sq feet, Walk Score 87."* (There is also www.walkscore.org which will release the open source code for the Walk Score algorithm on the site) City-Go-Round <http://www.citygoround.org/> helps you find innovative public transit *apps & shows which transit agencies do and don't provide open data to software developers.* Front Seat <http://www.frontseat.org/>, a seattle based civic software company and incubator who have developed these, *are good guys to follow*, they have done many other projects including: - ObamaCTO.org asked people to submit and vote on the priorities for our country's first Chief Technology Office, in order to show the Obama team the power of crowdsourcing. A similar feature was then set up on Change.gov
On 14/04/2010, at 10:45 AM, Carl Chenery wrote: > Thanks Glen, > > This will be useful for inputting transit data into something I just came > across called Walk Score <http://www.WalkScore.com>. > Be careful with things like Walk Score. Although they are a good start they are limited in terms of what Walkability is. My thoughts on this here - http://www.zoodle.co.nz/cms/blog/what-exactly-is-walkability.html although they may have improved their methodology by now. A quick Google search turns up some interesting links - http://www.google.co.nz/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=auckland+walkability&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=JPvES43_OovY7AP_-r3WDg. And if I could remember the site there was some great work done recently at one of the universities where they did an walkability audit that took into account quite a bit more detail than what Walk Score does. But agreed that this data will come in very useful. I intend to put this on Zoodle.co.nz so you can see how far the closest bus stops are.
On Wed, April 14, 2010 10:09 am, <email obscured> wrote: > I made an official information request to Auckland to speed up the > publishing of the Google Transit Feed data. > > The link on the Data Catalogue can be found here - > http://cat.open.org.nz/2010/04/13/auckland-google-transit-feed/ > > Wellington's dataset is here - > http://cat.open.org.nz/2010/01/12/metlink-google-transit-feed/ > > I'm not sure if Christchurch or any other city has this data available or > not. AFAIK ECAN hasn't made their data available as a Google Transit Feed. They do have a public API, but it's not publicised, nor documented. It's kind of available on an "as-is, where-is" basis, and there are some useful apps around (notably MetroInfo for iPhone [1]). I've also developed an intranet widget for a local company, so employees can see when their bus is due to go. The real time ETA data is stunningly useful - timetables are lot less relevant when you know when the bus is *actually* going to arrive. ECAN are accepting submissions on their Metro Strategy, ending this Friday 16 April. [2] Several strategy statements are relevant to open govt data: 4. Promote the Metro system to raise awareness and encourage greater patronage. 5. Provide Real Time Information at 30% of Metro bus stops. 6. Make Real Time Information available via cell phone and internet. (marked as "Achieved") 9. Research community preferences for information provision (I'm not aware of this research). I'm going to request that, irrespective of any other changes to public transport, that they ensure digital data about the services (routes, stops, ETAs, etc.) are made available over public APIs that are stable and *supported*, using open and standard data formats, with favourable terms of use. I want to see them commit to their APIs, and to data provision, so that developers can have the confidence of utilising them for apps. I encourage other Open Govt Data advocates to submit also, using the online form at [2]. It would be good also to encourage some deliberate (as opposed to accidental) consistency in APIs between areas, so that an app that works in one area has a chance of working in another. [1] http://orsome.co.nz/MetroInfo.html [2] http://metroinfo.co.nz/strategy2007.html
Well I tries to submit a response, I hope it worked but it looked like it
kicked me out of the form.
On 14/04/2010, at 11:25 AM, <email obscured> wrote:
> On Wed, April 14, 2010 10:09 am, <email obscured> wrote:
> I'm going to request that, irrespective of any other changes to public
> transport, that they ensure digital data about the services (routes,
> stops, ETAs, etc.) are made available over public APIs that are stable and
> *supported*, using open and standard data formats, with favourable terms
> of use. I want to see them commit to their APIs, and to data provision, so
> that developers can have the confidence of utilising them for apps.
>
Can you make sure in your submission you specify Google Transit Feed format for
the routes, stops, etc.? It seems like the easiest format to use and is
supported by a lot of third party tools. I'm not sure if there is a standard
for real time information.
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Glen Barnes <email obscured>> wrote: > > And if I could remember the site there was some great work done recently at > one of the universities where they did an walkability audit that took into > account quite a bit more detail than what Walk Score does. > Suze Mavoa (@suze) from Massey University in Auckland? http://urbanhealthgis.blogspot.com/2010/03/measuring-neighbourhood-walkability-in.html <http://urbanhealthgis.blogspot.com/2010/03/measuring-neighbourhood-walkability-in.html> Rob :)
Yes - Brilliant. That's the one. On 14/04/2010, at 12:47 PM, Robert Coup wrote: > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Glen Barnes <email obscured>> wrote: > >> >> And if I could remember the site there was some great work done recently at >> one of the universities where they did an walkability audit that took into >> account quite a bit more detail than what Walk Score does. >> > > Suze Mavoa (@suze) from Massey University in Auckland? > http://urbanhealthgis.blogspot.com/2010/03/measuring-neighbourhood-walkability-in.html > <http://urbanhealthgis.blogspot.com/2010/03/measuring-neighbourhood-walkability-in.html>
On Wed, April 14, 2010 11:59 am, Glen Barnes wrote: > Well I tries to submit a response, I hope it worked but it looked like it kicked me out of the form. > > On 14/04/2010, at 11:25 AM, <email obscured> wrote: > >> On Wed, April 14, 2010 10:09 am, <email obscured> wrote: > >> I'm going to request that, irrespective of any other changes to public transport, that they ensure digital data about the services (routes, stops, ETAs, etc.) are made available over public APIs that are stable and >> *supported*, using open and standard data formats, with favourable terms of use. I want to see them commit to their APIs, and to data provision, so >> that developers can have the confidence of utilising them for apps. >> > > Can you make sure in your submission you specify Google Transit Feed format for the routes, stops, etc.? It seems like the easiest format to use and is supported by a lot of third party tools. I'm not sure if there is a standard for real time information. Draft submission (including GTF) is below. Feedback welcome over next 24 hours, or use it as the basis for your own submission. GTF doesn't appear to have a realtime component - is that right? Do Wellington and Auckland have the realtime data that Christchurch has? Background I am a regular bus user over the last five years, usually commuting from Mt Pleasant to the CBD, but often to other destinations such as the Airport, Lyttelton, Sumner also. I am a freelance web developer, with particular interests in mobile web and open data. Environmental sustainability suggests that encouraging greater utilisation of public transport over private vehicle use is highly desirable. I'd like to see public transport and cycling reach the levels of places like Amsterdam, where private vehicles are uncommon in the CBD and the city has a peaceful, "human" feel. ECAN should be aware of a growing international trend towards open data, especially in government. This is particularly relevant to data that citizens can use daily, such as a bus route and real-time arrival times. There are a growing number of examples of useful and innovative information services around public transport, especially those linked to mobile devices such as smartphones. For example, multiple mobile and desktop applications for TriMet (Portland, Oregon) [1] and augmented reality application Nearest Tube on iPhone [2]. Closer to home, my use of public transport has been significantly boosted by my use of Metroinfo on iPhone [3]. The ability to see realtime ETAs for my regular stops, means that I can have confidence in the availability of the service and I can make the most efficient use of my time by avoiding unnecessary waiting. Service Information The Metro Strategy brochure outlines several goals relating to open data: 4. Promote the Metro system to raise awareness and encourage greater patronage. 5. Provide Real Time Information at 30% of Metro bus stops. 6. Make Real Time Information available via cell phone and internet. (marked as "Achieved") Cell phone and internet availability is marked as "achieved," implying that no further work may be done. While I applaud Metro for being (as far as I know) the first service in NZ to provide realtime ETA's, there are still significant improvements to be made. Open Data Metro must commit to publishing data using open standards and without reliance on proprietary technologies. A previous online map on the Metro website needed the Adobe SVG plugin only available on Windows (and since discontinued by Adobe). The current map [4] requires Microsoft Silverlight, available only on Windows and Macintosh, not Linux. I am aware of an experimental Google Maps version that at least works across common desktop platforms without proprietary plugins [5]. The current web site does not meet the NZ Government Web Standards in that it relies on scripts and proprietary plugins to deliver key information, instead of using such features to provide an enhanced experience only [6]. Furthermore, as international and local experience demonstrates, government institutions often lack the information technology capability to deliver innovative service applications. It's important that the underlying data feeds for routes, timetables and realtime arrivals is made available and that institutions are not proprietorial over implementing "end user" solutions. If the "raw" data is made available, private citizens, NGOs and companies are likely to provide complementary services. This has already been demonstrated in Christchurch with the Metroinfo application on iPhone [3]. Supported APIs I contacted Metro's service provider Connexions and was given a rough description of the available APIs (application programming interfaces). This was sufficient to develop an intranet "widget" for a local company to give their employees convenient access to prefered bus departure times. However, the APIs are not publicised by Metro, are largely undocumented, may not be under Metro control (or not be part of any formal contract for service), may change at any time and may not span the full range of services. They appear to be available merely on an informal "as-is, where-is" basis. Metro should publically commit to their APIs, and to data provision, so that developers can have the confidence of utilising them for applications. Favourable Terms Providing stable and supported APIs and using open and standard data formats (XML, JSON, etc.) is necessary but not sufficient for widespread adoption. Metro also needs to make the terms of use, including copyright on data, permissive to allow the widest range of uses, including commercial use. The terms should be free of unnecessary encumbrances and legalistic protections. Data Standards It would be good also to see Metro encourage some deliberate (as opposed to accidental) consistency in APIs between other authorities in NZ, so that an application that works in one area has a chance of working in another, perhaps with only minor modifications. Metro should consider making transport data available using the Google Transit Feed approach [7] as has been done in Auckland [8] and Wellington [9]. Open data and cycle racks 27 Provide bike racks on buses where there is high demand. Several aspects of provision of cycle racks need attention: a. Buses on routes with cycle racks often run without racks (due to a particular bus being swapped for operational purposes). This creates uncertainty in the minds of passengers, and leads to less than optimal take-up of the service. Specific service criteria need to be established to ensure rack availability. b. Rack provision (and utilisation) should be expressed via the API (i.e. specific buses with wheelchair access are visible via the API, and thus specific buses with bike racks should also be available). This would allow potential passengers to monitor their information feed to see when a bus with a rack available is due, and meet it accordingly. Summary In summary, I think Metro has delivered some advanced capabilities, ahead of the rest of NZ, but these efforts appear to have stalled. Metro needs to positively embrace the potential in its own community through a commitment to delivering open data. Metro should recognise the significant opportunity to increase awareness and utilisation of its services through the wider adoption of innovative applications developed by third parties. Regards Jonathan [1] http://trimet.org/apps/ [2] http://www.acrossair.com/acrossair_app_augmented_reality_nearesttube_london_for_iPhone_3GS.htm [3] http://orsome.co.nz/MetroInfo.html [4] http://metroinfo.co.nz/realtime_map.html [5] http://arcgis.ecan.govt.nz/Beta/Metro/wheresmybus.aspx [6] http://webstandards.govt.nz/applications-and-accessible-alternatives/ [7] http://code.google.com/transit/spec/transit_feed_specification.html [8] http://www.maxx.co.nz/information/about-maxx/google-transit-feed.html [9] http://www.metlink.org.nz/google-transit-feed/
On 14/04/2010, at 2:15 PM, <email obscured> wrote:
>
> GTF doesn't appear to have a realtime component - is that right? Do
> Wellington and Auckland have the realtime data that Christchurch has?
No it doesn't but there are 2 distinct things here. 1) Realtime information
for which I don't know if there is a standard. and 2) The timetable and stop
information for which there is the GTF. It would be great if they supplied both
pieces of information.
PS: Nice submission and well thought out.
On 14/04/2010, at 2:15 PM, <email obscured> wrote:
> GTF doesn't appear to have a realtime component - is that right? Do
> Wellington and Auckland have the realtime data that Christchurch has?
Currently, Wellington does not have the infrastructure in place to
provide realtime data (e.g. GPS units on busses), however they are
well progressed in a project to have this in place, potentially later
this year.
Sigurd Magnusson
Or they could just give each bus an iPhone :)
Sent from my iPhone
On 14/04/2010, at 3:38 PM, Sigurd Magnusson <email obscured>>
wrote:
Or an Android and just have it work in the background (or iPhone 4.0 I understand) as the driver listens to his MP3s ;-) Point being: "project", "well progressed" ... sounds like something large and well, to be honest, consultancy when really the tech is there and should be easily rolled out. Cheers, Mike Riversdale tel: +64 (0)21-169 1359 Skype: mike.riversdale email: <email obscured> web: http://www.miramarmike.co.nz