All posts in the topic Fwd: New licence improves access to environmental data (Short link)

On Wed, 2009-07-01 at 15:15 +1200, Gavin Treadgold wrote:
> It is public at last - released with a CC-BY licence :)
>
> I think we need to congratulate MFE publicly!
>
> Cheers Gav
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: Karl Majorhazi <email obscured>>
> > Date: 1 July 2009 2:52:43 PM
> > To: <email obscured>'" <email obscured>>
> > Subject: New licence improves access to environmental data
> >
> > Hi Gavin,
> > Here’s a media release for the NZ GIS group.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Karl
> >
> >
> >
> > 1 July 2009	Media Statement
> >
> > New licence improves access to environmental data
> >
> > Two major environmental databases are set to become more accessible
> > and easier to use following the re-release of these digital maps by
> > the Ministry for the Environment.
> >
> > The Land Cover Database and the Land Environments New Zealand
> > classification layers, widely used by agencies in environmental and
> > resource management planning, will now be issued online with a
> > Creative Commons Attribution licence.
> >
> > Ministry for the Environment’s Len Brown says this will promote the
> > free exchange of environmental data, allowing more people access,
> > use and benefit from the data.
> >
> > “Improving access to the Government’s spatial information is a
> > goal of the New Zealand Geospatial Strategy, one that the Ministry
> > is committed to supporting.”
> >
> > The Ministry will be using an existing online service from
> > Koordinates.com, a New Zealand company, to distribute the data. An
> > off-the-shelf data licence from Creative Commons will allow the data
> > to be freely used and shared while maintaining Crown copyright. This
> > move does away with licence fees and the cost and effort of issuing
> > and maintaining end-user licence agreements.
> >
> > The move to make the digital maps available under a Creative Commons
> > licence was prompted by the need to replace the existing supply
> > agreements that were due to expire.
> >
> > “The new licence will allow the public to freely share and
> > distribute environmental data and information without having to ask
> > for permission if they want to use the data in different ways.
> >
> > “Terralink International and Landcare Research, the previous
> > suppliers, see the potential growth of the user-base as an
> > opportunity for them to provide more value-added services,” Brown
> > said.
> >
> > (Questions and answers for the re-licensing of the Land Cover
> > Database (LCDB) and Land Environments New Zealand (LENZ) attached)
> >
> > Media contact:
> > Sophie Lee, Media Advisor,
> > Ministry for the Environment – Manatū Mō Te Taiao
> > Phone:  04 439 7550
> >
> > Q&As for the re-licensing of Land Cover Database (LCDB) and Land
> > Environments New Zealand (LENZ)
> >
> > Q What is LCDB and LENZ?
> > LCDB2 is a thematic classification of 43 land cover and land use
> > classes. The polygon features contain a code and boundary
> > representing the land cover type for the period Summer 1996 / 97 and
> > Summer 2001 / 02.
> >
> > Land Environments New Zealand (LENZ) is a classification of 15
> > climate, landform, and soil variables chosen for their relevance to
> > biological distributions. Four levels of classification detail have
> > been produced from this analysis, containing 20, 100, 200, and 500
> > groups respectively.
> >
> > Q Why has the Ministry decided to change the licence agreements for
> > the distribution of the LCDB and LENZ?
> > The licence agreements for the distribution of LCDB and LENZ have
> > expired and alternative arrangements were being reviewed at the time
> > the State Services Commission was preparing their Open Government
> > Information and Data Re-use discussion paper.
> >
> > The Internet has developed a capacity to deliver large amounts of
> > data to consumers which did not exist five years ago when LCDB and
> > LENZ were first made available and when CDs and postage were the
> > accepted distribution mechanisms.
> >
> > The LCDB was licensed to Terralink to distribute on the Ministry for
> > the Environment’s behalf from 2004, and LENZ was licensed to
> > Landcare.
> >
> > Creative Commons licences enable us to distribute data and encourage
> > sharing and re-use while retaining Crown copyright. There is no
> > longer any need to have users sign an End-User Licence Agreement
> > which contains restrictions and conditions on how the data can be
> > used.
> >
> > Q What does this mean for the previous licence holders Terralink and
> > Landcare?
> > Terralink and Landcare can still continue distributing the data with
> > the new licences. This initiative is the result of improvements in
> > technology. Both companies are willing participants and will benefit
> > from the change.
> >
> > The current user-base is around 100 users for LCDB and 150 users of
> > LENZ.
> > We expect that free and easy access to the data will increase the
> > user base and with that, the market for value-added services.
> >
> > Landcare Research has informed us that following this announcement,
> > it will be issuing a release announcing its intention to release its
> > own underlying LENZ layers with a Creative Commons licence. These
> > layers are Landcare Research’s IP and were used to create the
> > Ministry’s LENZ classification – which is an aggregation of these
> > underlying layers. They are/were separately licensed products for
> > LENZ users who require more detailed data.
> >
> > Q What are the benefits of a Creative Commons licence?
> > The benefits of using Creative Commons licences are:
> > Users know, up-front, what they can and can’t do with the data
> > without having to read the legal code
> > Users don’t have to ask for permission if they want to use the data
> > in different ways
> > The Ministry doesn’t have to go to the expense and effort of
> > creating and maintaining licence agreements with every user
> > Creative Commons licences are standardised, off-the-shelf products
> > that can be used for a wide range of Government data and information.
> >
> > Creative Commons licences provide copyright holders with control
> > over how their works can be used. Core licences of the Creative
> > Commons can be used to:
> > Credit the originator of the work
> > Prohibit commercial exploitation of the data
> > Ensure derivative works are shared with the same licence as the
> > original work.
> > Prohibit the creation of derivative works.
> >
> > A Creative Commons licence does not mean the data is “Public
> > Domain”. Crown copyright will still be maintained. The Government
> > will still be the primary, authoritative source for LCDB and LENZ
> > even though anyone can share the data.
> >
> > Q How common is the use of a Creative Commons licence for public
> > information among other government departments?
> >
> > Not all Government data can be distributed this way. There are cases
> > where privacy and confidentiality need to be preserved and where
> > commercialisation is in the public interest.
> >
> > Other governments overseas have been looking at opening access to
> > public sector information.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sophie Lee
> > Adviser Communications
> > Reporting and Communications
> > Ministry for the Environment
> > Direct (04) 439 7550
> > Fax (04) 439 7706
> >
> >
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> https://groups.opengovt.org.nz/r/topic/16hG3oovJZ1nDRpqcvQ7Kj
>
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>
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--
---------------------------------------
Donald Christie - Director
Catalyst IT Limited
Level 6,150-154 Willis Street, PO Box 11-053
Wellington New Zealand
Tel:+64 4 4992267
Mob:+64 274 707814
http://catalyst.net.nz
----------------------------------------

:D


On 1/07/2009, at 3:26 PM, Don wrote:

> Is this online?
>
> On Wed, 2009-07-01 at 15:15 +1200, Gavin Treadgold wrote:
>> It is public at last - released with a CC-BY licence :)
>>
>> I think we need to congratulate MFE publicly!
>>
>> Cheers Gav
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: Karl Majorhazi <email obscured>>
>>> Date: 1 July 2009 2:52:43 PM
>>> To: <email obscured>'" <email obscured>>
>>> Subject: New licence improves access to environmental data
>>>
>>> Hi Gavin,
>>> Here’s a media release for the NZ GIS group.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Karl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1 July 2009	Media Statement
>>>
>>> New licence improves access to environmental data
>>>
>>> Two major environmental databases are set to become more accessible
>>> and easier to use following the re-release of these digital maps by
>>> the Ministry for the Environment.
>>>
>>> The Land Cover Database and the Land Environments New Zealand
>>> classification layers, widely used by agencies in environmental and
>>> resource management planning, will now be issued online with a
>>> Creative Commons Attribution licence.
>>>
>>> Ministry for the Environment’s Len Brown says this will promote
>>> the
>>> free exchange of environmental data, allowing more people access,
>>> use and benefit from the data.
>>>
>>> “Improving access to the Government’s spatial information is a
>>> goal of the New Zealand Geospatial Strategy, one that the Ministry
>>> is committed to supporting.”
>>>
>>> The Ministry will be using an existing online service from
>>> Koordinates.com, a New Zealand company, to distribute the data. An
>>> off-the-shelf data licence from Creative Commons will allow the data
>>> to be freely used and shared while maintaining Crown copyright. This
>>> move does away with licence fees and the cost and effort of issuing
>>> and maintaining end-user licence agreements.
>>>
>>> The move to make the digital maps available under a Creative Commons
>>> licence was prompted by the need to replace the existing supply
>>> agreements that were due to expire.
>>>
>>> “The new licence will allow the public to freely share and
>>> distribute environmental data and information without having to ask
>>> for permission if they want to use the data in different ways.
>>>
>>> “Terralink International and Landcare Research, the previous
>>> suppliers, see the potential growth of the user-base as an
>>> opportunity for them to provide more value-added services,” Brown
>>> said.
>>>
>>> (Questions and answers for the re-licensing of the Land Cover
>>> Database (LCDB) and Land Environments New Zealand (LENZ) attached)
>>>
>>> Media contact:
>>> Sophie Lee, Media Advisor,
>>> Ministry for the Environment – Manatū Mō Te Taiao
>>> Phone:  04 439 7550
>>>
>>> Q&As for the re-licensing of Land Cover Database (LCDB) and Land
>>> Environments New Zealand (LENZ)
>>>
>>> Q What is LCDB and LENZ?
>>> LCDB2 is a thematic classification of 43 land cover and land use
>>> classes. The polygon features contain a code and boundary
>>> representing the land cover type for the period Summer 1996 / 97 and
>>> Summer 2001 / 02.
>>>
>>> Land Environments New Zealand (LENZ) is a classification of 15
>>> climate, landform, and soil variables chosen for their relevance to
>>> biological distributions. Four levels of classification detail have
>>> been produced from this analysis, containing 20, 100, 200, and 500
>>> groups respectively.
>>>
>>> Q Why has the Ministry decided to change the licence agreements for
>>> the distribution of the LCDB and LENZ?
>>> The licence agreements for the distribution of LCDB and LENZ have
>>> expired and alternative arrangements were being reviewed at the time
>>> the State Services Commission was preparing their Open Government
>>> Information and Data Re-use discussion paper.
>>>
>>> The Internet has developed a capacity to deliver large amounts of
>>> data to consumers which did not exist five years ago when LCDB and
>>> LENZ were first made available and when CDs and postage were the
>>> accepted distribution mechanisms.
>>>
>>> The LCDB was licensed to Terralink to distribute on the Ministry for
>>> the Environment’s behalf from 2004, and LENZ was licensed to
>>> Landcare.
>>>
>>> Creative Commons licences enable us to distribute data and encourage
>>> sharing and re-use while retaining Crown copyright. There is no
>>> longer any need to have users sign an End-User Licence Agreement
>>> which contains restrictions and conditions on how the data can be
>>> used.
>>>
>>> Q What does this mean for the previous licence holders Terralink and
>>> Landcare?
>>> Terralink and Landcare can still continue distributing the data with
>>> the new licences. This initiative is the result of improvements in
>>> technology. Both companies are willing participants and will benefit
>>> from the change.
>>>
>>> The current user-base is around 100 users for LCDB and 150 users of
>>> LENZ.
>>> We expect that free and easy access to the data will increase the
>>> user base and with that, the market for value-added services.
>>>
>>> Landcare Research has informed us that following this announcement,
>>> it will be issuing a release announcing its intention to release its
>>> own underlying LENZ layers with a Creative Commons licence. These
>>> layers are Landcare Research’s IP and were used to create the
>>> Ministry’s LENZ classification – which is an aggregation of
>>> these
>>> underlying layers. They are/were separately licensed products for
>>> LENZ users who require more detailed data.
>>>
>>> Q What are the benefits of a Creative Commons licence?
>>> The benefits of using Creative Commons licences are:
>>> Users know, up-front, what they can and can’t do with the data
>>> without having to read the legal code
>>> Users don’t have to ask for permission if they want to use the
>>> data
>>> in different ways
>>> The Ministry doesn’t have to go to the expense and effort of
>>> creating and maintaining licence agreements with every user
>>> Creative Commons licences are standardised, off-the-shelf products
>>> that can be used for a wide range of Government data and
>>> information.
>>>
>>> Creative Commons licences provide copyright holders with control
>>> over how their works can be used. Core licences of the Creative
>>> Commons can be used to:
>>> Credit the originator of the work
>>> Prohibit commercial exploitation of the data
>>> Ensure derivative works are shared with the same licence as the
>>> original work.
>>> Prohibit the creation of derivative works.
>>>
>>> A Creative Commons licence does not mean the data is “Public
>>> Domain”. Crown copyright will still be maintained. The Government
>>> will still be the primary, authoritative source for LCDB and LENZ
>>> even though anyone can share the data.
>>>
>>> Q How common is the use of a Creative Commons licence for public
>>> information among other government departments?
>>>
>>> Not all Government data can be distributed this way. There are cases
>>> where privacy and confidentiality need to be preserved and where
>>> commercialisation is in the public interest.
>>>
>>> Other governments overseas have been looking at opening access to
>>> public sector information.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sophie Lee
>>> Adviser Communications
>>> Reporting and Communications
>>> Ministry for the Environment
>>> Direct (04) 439 7550
>>> Fax (04) 439 7706
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
>> https://groups.opengovt.org.nz/r/topic/16hG3oovJZ1nDRpqcvQ7Kj
>>
>> To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email
>> <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe
>>
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>> OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
>>
>> Host your own online groups site with
>> GroupServer http://groupserver.org
> --
> ---------------------------------------
> Donald Christie - Director
> Catalyst IT Limited
> Level 6,150-154 Willis Street, PO Box 11-053
> Wellington New Zealand
> Tel:+64 4 4992267
> Mob:+64 274 707814
> http://catalyst.net.nz
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
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>
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Nat
-----

To: Nick Smith
CC: John Key
Subject: Kudos!  MfE opens data

The Ministry for the Environment recently re-released the Land Cover
Database and Land Environments New Zealand classification layers under
a Creative Commons Attribution license.  This is *fantastic* news.

Information lubricates the economy: rational economic actors make
correct decisions only when they have correct information.  Lowering
the hurdles to information access and reuse leads to better decisions
being made.  This is as true in science as it is in business.
Releasing taxpayer-funded information at no cost and with reuse rights
is 100% in the public interest and I commend this.

I recently wrote to the Prime Minister to express my disappointment
that New Zealand has no Government 2.0 program for transparency and
open data access, the way the USA, UK, and Australia have.  This
release by the MfE is a good step forward, and it's heartening that
individual departments are doing this.  I reiterate, however, that I'd
like to see the government embrace this as policy and put some muscle
into it, rather than relying on the enlightenment and good sense of
individual bureaucrats.

Please pass on my appreciation of this move to the relevant people in
the Ministry.

Cheers;

Nat Torkington
http://opengovt.org.nz

Jim

>
> Not all use cases of the data involve being near an internet
> connection. All I'm saying, and this is the emergency manager in me
> coming out (always thinking about the fragility of communications and
> power infrastructure), online web services are very nice, and yes,
> they will be the default use case for many people, but we have to be
> sure that it is just as easy for people to take the data with them in
> the device of their choice when they are _not_ connected to the net.
>
> If we want to give citizens an application that they can use in an
> emergency, including maps of CD shelters, evacuation routes etc, then
> it has to support an offline use case as well.
>
> Cheers Gav
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> https://groups.opengovt.org.nz/r/topic/67d1UdQGUQlvumZZg9EPhR
>
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On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 4:09 PM, <email obscured>> wrote:

> Ok Gavin,
> Yes agree the need to be able to continue without a connection. I was
> wondering why I would tramp with a lappy, but for a CD event (or rat mishap)
> that takes out the F-cable or cell tower then I see the need.
>
> My simple minded thought - "isn't that why we have local caching?" Don't
> these visualisation type apps do that?
> -----------------------------------------
> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
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>
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On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Ed Corkery <email obscured>>wrote:

> Pre-caching vector data in Google Earth is a nightmare. Not sure its even
> possible.
> And lets not mention printing at 300dpi in a useful projection, if you've
> got a bunch of streaming layers in your app. Ugh.
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 4:09 PM, <email obscured>> wrote:
>
> > Ok Gavin,
> > Yes agree the need to be able to continue without a connection. I was
> > wondering why I would tramp with a lappy, but for a CD event (or rat
> mishap)
> > that takes out the F-cable or cell tower then I see the need.
> >
> > My simple minded thought - "isn't that why we have local caching?" Don't
> > these visualisation type apps do that?
> > -----------------------------------------
> > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> > https://groups.opengovt.org.nz/r/topic/1A2PFRkWv6fxbfO5cBiD4U
> >
> > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email
> > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe
> >
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> >
>
> -----------------------------------------
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>
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Glen

On 2/07/2009, at 5:46 PM, Jim McLeod <email obscured>> wrote:

> It is interesting to see that the discussion has moved to focus on
> Google. I
> haven't had any exposure to Yahoo or the Bing thingy anyway.
> However, I
> raised the use of these apps as an alternative to the NZ Atlas
> suggestions
> and that what was needed perhaps was agreement on access to data.
> As for making data available to Google, I understand that there are
> three
> alternatives 1) provide Google with the data (as some Councils have
> done for
> aerial imagery and I am exploring for the Waikato), 2) serve up KML
> data for
> others to connect to as Napier City, Tiarua DC (?) and Kapiti DC
> have done,
> and 3) hold data local for inclusion in Google maps as I do
> presently for
> things like the Waikato Geothermal system boundaries.
>
> I suggest that depending upon the requirements (how good, bad or
> non-existent your connections) various combinations of the above can
> help
> provide data to your Google E/M.
>
> I am pleased to hear the support for mashing data for niche
> audiences. This
> is something that I have long (years) advocated to data traders such
> as QV
> and Terralink. I don't think mash was the word, but we talked about
> wanting
> to provide interested parties with access to a "sandbox" or
> "breadboard"
> fill of data so that we could see what could be done (smart people
> seeking
> problems). We have also discussed the same idea using the resources
> available to KAREN.
>
> Funnily enough I also argued for greater speeds when PROBE started
> as I
> thought geospatial might require more data than could be pushed down
> the
> proposed Telecom offering, but at least we got better than dial-up!
> (And I
> am by a Waikato west coast beach connecting at 6.5Mb/s so I suggest
> you
> townees change your digs ~8-) )
>
> Anyway back to question of getting data flowing.
> The concept of an API for working with Councils is interesting what
> would be
> involved in getting that done technically?
> Could we have an API for the building or resource consents process?
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Gavin Treadgold <email obscured>>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 2/07/2009, at 4:51 PM, Ed Corkery wrote:
>>> As for WFS/WMS etc, having multiple users on the inside of your
>>> router
>>> accessing external streaming GIS-quality services can cause
>>> bandwidth
>>> problems for the entire office. There's no caching happening at the
>>> critical
>>> bottleneck. 10 users in one office viewing the same area via
>>> streaming
>>> services = 10x the bandwidth usage.
>>
>> That also raises not only a network utilisation issue, but also
>> business continuity for larger organisations - it may well be better
>> for orgs to download and hosted locally to make more efficient use of
>> bandwidth. I could see councils and large orgs doing that, especially
>> if they have some mission critical apps running on them.
>>
>> Cheers Gav
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
>> https://groups.opengovt.org.nz/r/topic/5RuFmQ5RnmesqU39mL6y3d
>>
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>
> -----------------------------------------
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On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Rowan Crawford <email obscured>> wrote:

> Looks pretty scrapeable though. If it's as consistent as it looked you
> could
> absolutely make that into a dataset.
>
> rowan
>
> 2009/7/3 Glen Barnes <email obscured>>
>
> > Maybe I spoke too soon...
> >
> > "Our rates information is not available in datasets. The rating database
> > is not a database it is cobol files.
> >
> > These pages are created using our internal corporate system and are only
> > accessible from our websites.
> >
> > Thank you for your enquiry"
> >
> > - Napier City Council in my request to provide an XML version of their
> > rating web pages.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On 2/07/2009, at 5:46 PM, Jim McLeod <email obscured>> wrote:
> >
> > > It is interesting to see that the discussion has moved to focus on
> > > Google. I
> > > haven't had any exposure to Yahoo or the Bing thingy anyway.
> > > However, I
> > > raised the use of these apps as an alternative to the NZ Atlas
> > > suggestions
> > > and that what was needed perhaps was agreement on access to data.
> > > As for making data available to Google, I understand that there are
> > > three
> > > alternatives 1) provide Google with the data (as some Councils have
> > > done for
> > > aerial imagery and I am exploring for the Waikato), 2) serve up KML
> > > data for
> > > others to connect to as Napier City, Tiarua DC (?) and Kapiti DC
> > > have done,
> > > and 3) hold data local for inclusion in Google maps as I do
> > > presently for
> > > things like the Waikato Geothermal system boundaries.
> > >
> > > I suggest that depending upon the requirements (how good, bad or
> > > non-existent your connections) various combinations of the above can
> > > help
> > > provide data to your Google E/M.
> > >
> > > I am pleased to hear the support for mashing data for niche
> > > audiences. This
> > > is something that I have long (years) advocated to data traders such
> > > as QV
> > > and Terralink. I don't think mash was the word, but we talked about
> > > wanting
> > > to provide interested parties with access to a "sandbox" or
> > > "breadboard"
> > > fill of data so that we could see what could be done (smart people
> > > seeking
> > > problems). We have also discussed the same idea using the resources
> > > available to KAREN.
> > >
> > > Funnily enough I also argued for greater speeds when PROBE started
> > > as I
> > > thought geospatial might require more data than could be pushed down
> > > the
> > > proposed Telecom offering, but at least we got better than dial-up!
> > > (And I
> > > am by a Waikato west coast beach connecting at 6.5Mb/s so I suggest
> > > you
> > > townees change your digs ~8-) )
> > >
> > > Anyway back to question of getting data flowing.
> > > The concept of an API for working with Councils is interesting what
> > > would be
> > > involved in getting that done technically?
> > > Could we have an API for the building or resource consents process?
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Gavin Treadgold <email obscured>>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> On 2/07/2009, at 4:51 PM, Ed Corkery wrote:
> > >>> As for WFS/WMS etc, having multiple users on the inside of your
> > >>> router
> > >>> accessing external streaming GIS-quality services can cause
> > >>> bandwidth
> > >>> problems for the entire office. There's no caching happening at the
> > >>> critical
> > >>> bottleneck. 10 users in one office viewing the same area via
> > >>> streaming
> > >>> services = 10x the bandwidth usage.
> > >>
> > >> That also raises not only a network utilisation issue, but also
> > >> business continuity for larger organisations - it may well be better
> > >> for orgs to download and hosted locally to make more efficient use of
> > >> bandwidth. I could see councils and large orgs doing that, especially
> > >> if they have some mission critical apps running on them.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers Gav
> > >>
> > >> -----------------------------------------
> > >> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> > >> https://groups.opengovt.org.nz/r/topic/5RuFmQ5RnmesqU39mL6y3d
> > >>
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Jim

Jim

Glen

On 3/07/2009, at 12:56 PM, Andrew Ecclestone wrote:

> "For some Councils they have to purchase their valuation data back
> from their database service provider so that they themsleves can
> analysis the properties within their dominion."
>
> Erm.... how did they ever come to sign contracts which would require
> this?  Has any regulator (such as the C&AG) been made aware of this
> somewhat Kafkaesque situation?
>
> ---- <email obscured> wrote:
>
> =============
> You overestimate my powers! ~8-)
> The rating valuation data belongs to each Council. In the Waikato we
> have 13 Councils.
> The Waikato Regional Council has to negotiate with each of the 12
> Territorial Authorities (Districts and Cities) to get access to
> their data so that the Regional Council can strike its rates. For
> some regions, some of this valuation data can take upto 6 months to
> access. For some Councils they have to purchase their valuation data
> back from their database service provider so that they themsleves
> can analysis the properties within their dominion.
>
> What I may be able to negotiate is access to the Waikato Regional
> Council property rates in machine readable form.
>
> Jim
> -----------------------------------------
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Regards
Jonathan

Jim

On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Gavin Treadgold <email obscured>> wrote:

>
> On 2009-07-03, at 13:03 , Glen Barnes wrote:
>
> > This is just nuts. My position (and I think this should be the
> > position of this group) is:
> >
> > "We have nothing against external companies performing work for the
> > Government and local body councils but ALL resulting data should be
> > owned by the Government and distributed by the Government. If
> > distribution is performed by a third party then the third party should
> > not discriminate against any data consumer and should provide the data
> > for free"
>
> I'm sure Jim will jump in here soon and say that councils get cheaper
> imagery if they licence it and the contractor is able to resell, as
> opposed to the solution of paying more for the imagery e.g. covering
> the potentially lost sales that the contractor would suffer from open
> data.
>
> I don't agree with this approach either, but this is the logic behind
> current operations.
>
> Cheers Gav
>
> -----------------------------------------
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On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 8:09 AM, Robert Coup <email obscured>> wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 6:37 AM, Jim McLeod <email obscured>>
> wrote:
>
> > The Regional Council position I am aware of is that much of the data we
> > procure or purchase is for our use only. We do not have the mandate,
> money
> > or resources to buy the data access rights for everyone and her computing
> > device.
>
>
> I don't think anybody is asking for licensed commercial data to be made
> available. What we're focussing on is data that the councils collect or
> maintain and where they're the authoritative custodian of the data.
>
> However, there are a number of situations where councils license commercial
> data *with* rights to distribute. IMO, if those rights are there the data
> should be open for others to access as well.
>
>
> > For the very small amount of data we collect ourselves we are continually
> > looking at how this can be provided to others.
>
>
> For most councils there is not a "very small amount of data". There are
> huge
> amounts of environmental data collected and maintained by the regional
> councils, and local councils have the best data on the infrastructure in
> their towns & cities, as well as the properties, consents, rates, parks,
> rubbish collections, traffic, and all the other things that go into running
> NZ.
>
> If data collection contracts (eg. measure water quality in the harbour) are
> being (re-)negotiated then IP should be a part of it, and unless there are
> *compelling* reasons (and $ can be a part of that) the data should be
> clearly licensed for distribution by the councils.
>
> Rob :)
>
> -----------------------------------------
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~mark

Glen

On 10/07/2009, at 9:07 AM, Mark Harris wrote:

> Jim McLeod wrote:
>> Thanks for the response Rob,
>> Much of the data you mention is collected for us by others.
>> When contracts were negotiated, for footpaths, floodbanks, bus info
>> systems,... the Council negotiators were not aware that the as
>> built data or
>> operational data was required by others or would be of value
>> outside Council
>> and they were seeking to reduce costs. Where contractors had the
>> foresight
>> to see the value in the data, in many instances they negotiated
>> cheaper
>> contracts to retain the commercial rights, allowing the Council to
>> use the
>> data for Council purposes but not commercial. (Remmeber the "right"
>> thinking
>> commercial world.)
>>
>> (A description of the state not necessarily the desired state.
>> ~8-) )
>
> However, isn't that data still "Official Information" under the
> legislation? Councils may have contracted out the services but they
> still have responsibility for the data. Contract law does not trump
> statutory requirements, I think.
>
> This is something councils need to sort out damn smartish, as the PRA
> will make quite solid requirements of them around keeping and making
> available much of that data.
>
> ~mark
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
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On 2009-07-10, at 15:43 , Jim McLeod wrote:

> I have some knowledge of one of these.The timetable is available on
> the web
> site, but beyond this there is a system where the bus position is
> known to
> an information system. This data is collected from the buses and
> sent to
> each bus stop so that potential passengers can by pressing a button
> find
> when the next bus might arrive. The information is audio as well as
> scrolled
> across a screen. There was a suggestion that the data feed be made
> more
> available but this would increase the cost and it wasn't clear how
> it could
> be used at the time. (There were many suggestions but no one knew
> how to
> actually do the coding.) So the requirement was dropped.
>
> I may be able to find out more about this given the interest in
> making an
> app.
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Glen Barnes <email obscured>>
> wrote:
>
>> Yeah - Lets look at how we can move forward with this instead of
>> looking back. What practical steps can we take to a) Surface
>> instances
>> where councils have given/negotiated away rights and b) make sure
>> this
>> doesn't happen again. One example noted was 'bus info systems' and I
>> would be very interested in why this data cannot be disseminated by
>> council for free in a machine readable format. The more people
>> catching the bus = better for the environment, cheaper fares and a
>> more frequent service. The way to get more people using the bus is to
>> make the information more available - Where is my bus exactly? and
>> how
>> long will it take to get to my destination right now?
>>
>> If we can start solving these issues one-by-one we can start to build
>> up some case studies to point people to.
>>
>> Glen
>>
>> On 10/07/2009, at 9:07 AM, Mark Harris wrote:
>>
>>> Jim McLeod wrote:
>>>> Thanks for the response Rob,
>>>> Much of the data you mention is collected for us by others.
>>>> When contracts were negotiated, for footpaths, floodbanks, bus info
>>>> systems,... the Council negotiators were not aware that the as
>>>> built data or
>>>> operational data was required by others or would be of value
>>>> outside Council
>>>> and they were seeking to reduce costs. Where contractors had the
>>>> foresight
>>>> to see the value in the data, in many instances they negotiated
>>>> cheaper
>>>> contracts to retain the commercial rights, allowing the Council to
>>>> use the
>>>> data for Council purposes but not commercial. (Remmeber the "right"
>>>> thinking
>>>> commercial world.)
>>>>
>>>> (A description of the state not necessarily the desired state.
>>>> ~8-) )
>>>
>>> However, isn't that data still "Official Information" under the
>>> legislation? Councils may have contracted out the services but they
>>> still have responsibility for the data. Contract law does not trump
>>> statutory requirements, I think.
>>>
>>> This is something councils need to sort out damn smartish, as the
>>> PRA
>>> will make quite solid requirements of them around keeping and making
>>> available much of that data.
>>>
>>> ~mark
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------
>>> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
>>> https://groups.opengovt.org.nz/r/topic/3RAZcjl1MKXr7J9R59va2W
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>>
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Dan

Jim

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Gavin Treadgold <email obscured>> wrote:

>
> On 2009-07-10, at 16:09 , Dan Randow wrote:
>
> >> I'd love to see an iPhone app that is connect to the Christchurch bus
> >> system so that I can get the realtime info on my phone.
> >
> > I have seen exactly that on Jonathan Hunt's iPhone.
> >
> > Using this,
> >   http://metroinfo.org.nz/wap.html
> > I presume.
>
> Yeah have used that and the user experience leaves a lot to be
> desired. I want something that uses the iPhones interface, pretty maps
> and not a web browser application ;)
>
> WAP access is also locked-in to the way MetroInfo want to provide the
> service, and I'd like to see more innovative and useful tools
> developed that provide more than ECan is currently willing to...
>
> Cheers Gav
>
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