All posts in the topic Graduate Outcomes for NZ Universities & other information of interest to students (Short link)

Apr 20 09:50 NZST

Hi, Doug.  Thanks for your note -- it's an interesting idea!  Have you
approached IRD to get the information you'd need?

Cheers;

Nat

On 19/04/2010, at 2:47 PM, Doug Hunt wrote:
> I was in the audience when you spoke at the NZCSRSC 2010 conference
> in Wellington last week.
>
> I have just completed a Masters in Computing at AUT, where I was
> student Vice President for 2007-2008.  I live on the North Shore.
>
> While involved in student issues I successfully put effort into
> freeing up university course quality information and initiated
> lobbying to provide better information on university graduate
> outcomes so that future students have better information about which
> courses to choose.
>
> Most NZ university students attend university so that they can get a
> job afterwards.  Often students looking at attending university
> either have no real idea what they should study or have some idea
> about a general area but do not have information available to help
> them choose between similar sounding courses within that area.
>
> Such students have two basic questions that they want answered:
>
> 1) Which course should I take to give me the job opportunities that
> I desire?
>   1a) Which of these 2, 3....n courses should I choose if I want the
> best chance of being employed on graduation and that will give me
> the best earning capability five years after graduating?
>
> 2) Which universities have the best reputation for students studying
> in my area of interest?
>   2a) Which courses/papers have the best reputation so that I can
> choose them if possible?
>   2b) Which courses/papers have the worst reputation so that I can
> avoid them if possible?
>
> The answers to question 1 can be found by surveying graduates from
> NZ universities both just after graduation and five years down the
> track and asking if they are employed, what they are employed doing
> and how much they are earning.  All NZ universities conduct such
> surveys but universally the information gained is patchy at best
> because very few graduates respond to these surveys, often because
> they have moved address after graduating and getting a job and in
> other cases because students consider this information to be
> personal and so do not want to disclose it.
>
> However, almost all NZ University students leave university with a
> student loan of some sort.  Student loans are handled by the Inland
> Revenue Department once students have graduated.  IRD knows
> (loosely) which students are resident in NZ and which are not.  In
> addition, IRD knows which students are employed, who their employer
> is and how much they earn.  IRD continues to know this information
> for NZ resident ex-students for as long as they are either employed
> in NZ and/or resident in NZ.
>
> Through the student loan identifier, IRD can match students to both
> their university and their academic record (to confirm what course/
> degree they took).
>
> As a result IRD has (almost) all the information needed to answer
> question 1.  Of course, this information would need to be summarised
> in a form that protected individual privacy before being released
> but once summarised it provides powerful information to new students
> about which courses they can choose that are most likely to produce
> the employment outcomes that the student desires (after graduating).
>
> Government policy is to encourage students to study courses that are
> most relevant to NZ employers.  NZ employers choose their younger
> employees (in part) based on what they know and have studied and so
> these employment choices send very good signals to future students
> about which courses are relevant and which are not.
>
> Making this information freely available not only is beneficial for
> future students but is also beneficial for employers and helps
> government to ensure that tertiary education spending is targeted
> towards the most relevant areas for NZ employers.
>
> I also have information about how to successfully answer question 2
> and I can make that available to you in a separate e-mail if you are
> interested.
>
> Would you and your group please help make this information freely
> available by lobbying government to make this summarised information
> available.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Doug Hunt
> Wearable Training Aids for Athletes
> www.aeubal.com
> <email obscured>  Ph: +64 21 322 551 (New Zealand)
>
Meh. A sign of the times I know, but how sad that University has come to
equal 'job opportunities'.

Mike
- who did completely unemployable stuff at University
- yes, I know it was in the days before student fees
- also, not a really relevant post for this group, so as you were :)

>
> On 19/04/2010, at 2:47 PM, Doug Hunt wrote:
>> I was in the audience when you spoke at the NZCSRSC 2010 conference
>> in Wellington last week.
>>
>> I have just completed a Masters in Computing at AUT, where I was
>> student Vice President for 2007-2008.  I live on the North Shore.
>>
>> While involved in student issues I successfully put effort into
>> freeing up university course quality information and initiated
>> lobbying to provide better information on university graduate
>> outcomes so that future students have better information about which
>> courses to choose.
>>
>> Most NZ university students attend university so that they can get a
>> job afterwards.  Often students looking at attending university
>> either have no real idea what they should study or have some idea
>> about a general area but do not have information available to help
>> them choose between similar sounding courses within that area.
>>
>> Such students have two basic questions that they want answered:
>>
>> 1) Which course should I take to give me the job opportunities that
>> I desire?
>>    1a) Which of these 2, 3....n courses should I choose if I want the
>> best chance of being employed on graduation and that will give me
>> the best earning capability five years after graduating?
>>
>> 2) Which universities have the best reputation for students studying
>> in my area of interest?
>>    2a) Which courses/papers have the best reputation so that I can
>> choose them if possible?
>>    2b) Which courses/papers have the worst reputation so that I can
>> avoid them if possible?
>>
>> The answers to question 1 can be found by surveying graduates from
>> NZ universities both just after graduation and five years down the
>> track and asking if they are employed, what they are employed doing
>> and how much they are earning.  All NZ universities conduct such
>> surveys but universally the information gained is patchy at best
>> because very few graduates respond to these surveys, often because
>> they have moved address after graduating and getting a job and in
>> other cases because students consider this information to be
>> personal and so do not want to disclose it.
>>
>> However, almost all NZ University students leave university with a
>> student loan of some sort.  Student loans are handled by the Inland
>> Revenue Department once students have graduated.  IRD knows
>> (loosely) which students are resident in NZ and which are not.  In
>> addition, IRD knows which students are employed, who their employer
>> is and how much they earn.  IRD continues to know this information
>> for NZ resident ex-students for as long as they are either employed
>> in NZ and/or resident in NZ.
>>
>> Through the student loan identifier, IRD can match students to both
>> their university and their academic record (to confirm what course/
>> degree they took).
>>
>> As a result IRD has (almost) all the information needed to answer
>> question 1.  Of course, this information would need to be summarised
>> in a form that protected individual privacy before being released
>> but once summarised it provides powerful information to new students
>> about which courses they can choose that are most likely to produce
>> the employment outcomes that the student desires (after graduating).
>>
>> Government policy is to encourage students to study courses that are
>> most relevant to NZ employers.  NZ employers choose their younger
>> employees (in part) based on what they know and have studied and so
>> these employment choices send very good signals to future students
>> about which courses are relevant and which are not.
>>
>> Making this information freely available not only is beneficial for
>> future students but is also beneficial for employers and helps
>> government to ensure that tertiary education spending is targeted
>> towards the most relevant areas for NZ employers.
>>
>> I also have information about how to successfully answer question 2
>> and I can make that available to you in a separate e-mail if you are
>> interested.
>>
>> Would you and your group please help make this information freely
>> available by lobbying government to make this summarised information
>> available.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Doug Hunt
>> Wearable Training Aids for Athletes
>> www.aeubal.com
>> <email obscured>  Ph: +64 21 322 551 (New Zealand)
>>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
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--
Regards

Mike

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Brown | m: +64 21 87 94 97 | <email obscured>
WEBSTOCK | PO Box 24205, Wellington, New Zealand | www.webstock.org.nz
IANAL, but somehow this seems be an instance of Data Matching?
www.privacy.org.nz/data-matching-introduction/

<http://www.privacy.org.nz/data-matching-introduction/>Quick google search
reveals this:

www.stats.govt.nz/reports/people/employment-outcomes-of-tertiary-education.aspx

<http://www.stats.govt.nz/reports/people/employment-outcomes-of-tertiary-education.aspx>Seems
like Stats are on it too.

Cheers,
Thong

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Nathan Torkington <email obscured>> wrote:

> Hi, Doug.  Thanks for your note -- it's an interesting idea!  Have you
> approached IRD to get the information you'd need?
>
> Cheers;
>
> Nat
>
>
> On 19/04/2010, at 2:47 PM, Doug Hunt wrote:
> > I was in the audience when you spoke at the NZCSRSC 2010 conference
> > in Wellington last week.
> >
> > I have just completed a Masters in Computing at AUT, where I was
> > student Vice President for 2007-2008.  I live on the North Shore.
> >
> > While involved in student issues I successfully put effort into
> > freeing up university course quality information and initiated
> > lobbying to provide better information on university graduate
> > outcomes so that future students have better information about which
> > courses to choose.
> >
> > Most NZ university students attend university so that they can get a
> > job afterwards.  Often students looking at attending university
> > either have no real idea what they should study or have some idea
> > about a general area but do not have information available to help
> > them choose between similar sounding courses within that area.
> >
> > Such students have two basic questions that they want answered:
> >
> > 1) Which course should I take to give me the job opportunities that
> > I desire?
> >   1a) Which of these 2, 3....n courses should I choose if I want the
> > best chance of being employed on graduation and that will give me
> > the best earning capability five years after graduating?
> >
> > 2) Which universities have the best reputation for students studying
> > in my area of interest?
> >   2a) Which courses/papers have the best reputation so that I can
> > choose them if possible?
> >   2b) Which courses/papers have the worst reputation so that I can
> > avoid them if possible?
> >
> > The answers to question 1 can be found by surveying graduates from
> > NZ universities both just after graduation and five years down the
> > track and asking if they are employed, what they are employed doing
> > and how much they are earning.  All NZ universities conduct such
> > surveys but universally the information gained is patchy at best
> > because very few graduates respond to these surveys, often because
> > they have moved address after graduating and getting a job and in
> > other cases because students consider this information to be
> > personal and so do not want to disclose it.
> >
> > However, almost all NZ University students leave university with a
> > student loan of some sort.  Student loans are handled by the Inland
> > Revenue Department once students have graduated.  IRD knows
> > (loosely) which students are resident in NZ and which are not.  In
> > addition, IRD knows which students are employed, who their employer
> > is and how much they earn.  IRD continues to know this information
> > for NZ resident ex-students for as long as they are either employed
> > in NZ and/or resident in NZ.
> >
> > Through the student loan identifier, IRD can match students to both
> > their university and their academic record (to confirm what course/
> > degree they took).
> >
> > As a result IRD has (almost) all the information needed to answer
> > question 1.  Of course, this information would need to be summarised
> > in a form that protected individual privacy before being released
> > but once summarised it provides powerful information to new students
> > about which courses they can choose that are most likely to produce
> > the employment outcomes that the student desires (after graduating).
> >
> > Government policy is to encourage students to study courses that are
> > most relevant to NZ employers.  NZ employers choose their younger
> > employees (in part) based on what they know and have studied and so
> > these employment choices send very good signals to future students
> > about which courses are relevant and which are not.
> >
> > Making this information freely available not only is beneficial for
> > future students but is also beneficial for employers and helps
> > government to ensure that tertiary education spending is targeted
> > towards the most relevant areas for NZ employers.
> >
> > I also have information about how to successfully answer question 2
> > and I can make that available to you in a separate e-mail if you are
> > interested.
> >
> > Would you and your group please help make this information freely
> > available by lobbying government to make this summarised information
> > available.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> > Doug Hunt
> > Wearable Training Aids for Athletes
> > www.aeubal.com
> > <email obscured>  Ph: +64 21 322 551 (New Zealand)
> >
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/2sKjMdPIrIgYioseTJSs94
>
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--
Best regards,
Y. Thong Kuah
Hi Everyone,

I attended the Official Statistics Forum 2010 here in Wellington a few weeks
back. On day two in session 6, stream 2... There were a couple of presentations
about the impact of training/education on earnings.
http://www.stats.govt.nz/sitecore/content/statisphere/Home/official-statistics-forum-2010.aspx
You might want to try getting in contact with those presenters for more info
Doug.

As I was writing this I saw the update from Thong, I was just doing a Google
for the presenter from the forum also and found:

Labour market outcomes of skills and qualifications
http://www.educationcounts.govt.nz/publications/tertiary_education/73669

Cheers,

Euan

-----Original Message-----
From: <email obscured> <email obscured>] On
Behalf Of Mike Brown
Sent: Monday, 19 April 2010 4:11 p.m.
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [ninjas] Graduate Outcomes for NZ Universities & other information
of interest to students

Meh. A sign of the times I know, but how sad that University has come to equal
'job opportunities'.

Mike
- who did completely unemployable stuff at University
- yes, I know it was in the days before student fees
- also, not a really relevant post for this group, so as you were :)

>
> On 19/04/2010, at 2:47 PM, Doug Hunt wrote:
>> I was in the audience when you spoke at the NZCSRSC 2010 conference
>> in Wellington last week.
>>
>> I have just completed a Masters in Computing at AUT, where I was
>> student Vice President for 2007-2008.  I live on the North Shore.
>>
>> While involved in student issues I successfully put effort into
>> freeing up university course quality information and initiated
>> lobbying to provide better information on university graduate
>> outcomes so that future students have better information about which
>> courses to choose.
>>
>> Most NZ university students attend university so that they can get a
>> job afterwards.  Often students looking at attending university
>> either have no real idea what they should study or have some idea
>> about a general area but do not have information available to help
>> them choose between similar sounding courses within that area.
>>
>> Such students have two basic questions that they want answered:
>>
>> 1) Which course should I take to give me the job opportunities that I
>> desire?
>>    1a) Which of these 2, 3....n courses should I choose if I want the
>> best chance of being employed on graduation and that will give me the
>> best earning capability five years after graduating?
>>
>> 2) Which universities have the best reputation for students studying
>> in my area of interest?
>>    2a) Which courses/papers have the best reputation so that I can
>> choose them if possible?
>>    2b) Which courses/papers have the worst reputation so that I can
>> avoid them if possible?
>>
>> The answers to question 1 can be found by surveying graduates from NZ
>> universities both just after graduation and five years down the track
>> and asking if they are employed, what they are employed doing and how
>> much they are earning.  All NZ universities conduct such surveys but
>> universally the information gained is patchy at best because very few
>> graduates respond to these surveys, often because they have moved
>> address after graduating and getting a job and in other cases because
>> students consider this information to be personal and so do not want
>> to disclose it.
>>
>> However, almost all NZ University students leave university with a
>> student loan of some sort.  Student loans are handled by the Inland
>> Revenue Department once students have graduated.  IRD knows
>> (loosely) which students are resident in NZ and which are not.  In
>> addition, IRD knows which students are employed, who their employer
>> is and how much they earn.  IRD continues to know this information
>> for NZ resident ex-students for as long as they are either employed
>> in NZ and/or resident in NZ.
>>
>> Through the student loan identifier, IRD can match students to both
>> their university and their academic record (to confirm what course/
>> degree they took).
>>
>> As a result IRD has (almost) all the information needed to answer
>> question 1.  Of course, this information would need to be summarised
>> in a form that protected individual privacy before being released but
>> once summarised it provides powerful information to new students
>> about which courses they can choose that are most likely to produce
>> the employment outcomes that the student desires (after graduating).
>>
>> Government policy is to encourage students to study courses that are
>> most relevant to NZ employers.  NZ employers choose their younger
>> employees (in part) based on what they know and have studied and so
>> these employment choices send very good signals to future students
>> about which courses are relevant and which are not.
>>
>> Making this information freely available not only is beneficial for
>> future students but is also beneficial for employers and helps
>> government to ensure that tertiary education spending is targeted
>> towards the most relevant areas for NZ employers.
>>
>> I also have information about how to successfully answer question 2
>> and I can make that available to you in a separate e-mail if you are
>> interested.
>>
>> Would you and your group please help make this information freely
>> available by lobbying government to make this summarised information
>> available.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Doug Hunt
>> Wearable Training Aids for Athletes
>> www.aeubal.com
>> <email obscured>  Ph: +64 21 322 551 (New Zealand)
>>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/2sKjMdPIrIgYioseTJSs94
>
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> <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe
>
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--
Regards

Mike

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Brown | m: +64 21 87 94 97 | <email obscured> WEBSTOCK | PO Box 24205,
Wellington, New Zealand | www.webstock.org.nz

-----------------------------------------
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One of the challenges here is defining an 'area of interest' across
institutions.

There is a system called Marsden codes and a new system called
Australian and New Zealand Standard Research Classification (ANZSRC) (
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Latestproducts/1297.0Contents12008?opendocument
). Most institutions currently use Marsden codes but (I believe) will
be moving to ANZSRC prior to the PBRF in 2012. Note that both of these
are research rather than teaching taxonomies. To see how Marsden codes
currently get used, see for example:
http://nzresearch.org.nz/index.php/browse/browseSubject

Does anyone know of an educationally oriented taxonomy for tertiary subjects?

----

On a completely separate note, I know an actuary who did the official
valuation of the student loans several years ago, and it's a _lot_
more complex than it might seem.

cheers
stuart

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Nathan Torkington <email obscured>> wrote:
> Hi, Doug.  Thanks for your note -- it's an interesting idea!  Have you
> approached IRD to get the information you'd need?
>
> Cheers;
>
> Nat
>
>
> On 19/04/2010, at 2:47 PM, Doug Hunt wrote:
>> I was in the audience when you spoke at the NZCSRSC 2010 conference
>> in Wellington last week.
>>
>> I have just completed a Masters in Computing at AUT, where I was
>> student Vice President for 2007-2008.  I live on the North Shore.
>>
>> While involved in student issues I successfully put effort into
>> freeing up university course quality information and initiated
>> lobbying to provide better information on university graduate
>> outcomes so that future students have better information about which
>> courses to choose.
>>
>> Most NZ university students attend university so that they can get a
>> job afterwards.  Often students looking at attending university
>> either have no real idea what they should study or have some idea
>> about a general area but do not have information available to help
>> them choose between similar sounding courses within that area.
>>
>> Such students have two basic questions that they want answered:
>>
>> 1) Which course should I take to give me the job opportunities that
>> I desire?
>>   1a) Which of these 2, 3....n courses should I choose if I want the
>> best chance of being employed on graduation and that will give me
>> the best earning capability five years after graduating?
>>
>> 2) Which universities have the best reputation for students studying
>> in my area of interest?
>>   2a) Which courses/papers have the best reputation so that I can
>> choose them if possible?
>>   2b) Which courses/papers have the worst reputation so that I can
>> avoid them if possible?
>>
>> The answers to question 1 can be found by surveying graduates from
>> NZ universities both just after graduation and five years down the
>> track and asking if they are employed, what they are employed doing
>> and how much they are earning.  All NZ universities conduct such
>> surveys but universally the information gained is patchy at best
>> because very few graduates respond to these surveys, often because
>> they have moved address after graduating and getting a job and in
>> other cases because students consider this information to be
>> personal and so do not want to disclose it.
>>
>> However, almost all NZ University students leave university with a
>> student loan of some sort.  Student loans are handled by the Inland
>> Revenue Department once students have graduated.  IRD knows
>> (loosely) which students are resident in NZ and which are not.  In
>> addition, IRD knows which students are employed, who their employer
>> is and how much they earn.  IRD continues to know this information
>> for NZ resident ex-students for as long as they are either employed
>> in NZ and/or resident in NZ.
>>
>> Through the student loan identifier, IRD can match students to both
>> their university and their academic record (to confirm what course/
>> degree they took).
>>
>> As a result IRD has (almost) all the information needed to answer
>> question 1.  Of course, this information would need to be summarised
>> in a form that protected individual privacy before being released
>> but once summarised it provides powerful information to new students
>> about which courses they can choose that are most likely to produce
>> the employment outcomes that the student desires (after graduating).
>>
>> Government policy is to encourage students to study courses that are
>> most relevant to NZ employers.  NZ employers choose their younger
>> employees (in part) based on what they know and have studied and so
>> these employment choices send very good signals to future students
>> about which courses are relevant and which are not.
>>
>> Making this information freely available not only is beneficial for
>> future students but is also beneficial for employers and helps
>> government to ensure that tertiary education spending is targeted
>> towards the most relevant areas for NZ employers.
>>
>> I also have information about how to successfully answer question 2
>> and I can make that available to you in a separate e-mail if you are
>> interested.
>>
>> Would you and your group please help make this information freely
>> available by lobbying government to make this summarised information
>> available.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Doug Hunt
>> Wearable Training Aids for Athletes
>> www.aeubal.com
>> <email obscured>  Ph: +64 21 322 551 (New Zealand)
>>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/2sKjMdPIrIgYioseTJSs94
>
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>
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>
Hi Stuart, Thanks for the comments.

Neither of these coding systems is particularly useful for potential
students.  Think "18 years old and trying to decide what to study at Uni"
versus "been in the system 20 years and know it backwards".

The Dep of Stats stuff is also interesting but reading the privacy impact
report it is clear that they will not output stats at a course level or even
a uni level.  They are simply wanting to compare University training V
Polytech training V other tertiary training V no tertiary training.

Have a look at http://unistats.direct.gov.uk/ for a somewhat tame version of
what could be available to NZ students if graduate outcome data AND course
quality data was freely available.

An ideal site would allow searches down to paper level.

All NZ Uni's are required to collect course quality stats but few make this
data publicly available and where it is publicly available it is hidden in
obscure web pages and formatted so that it is difficult to use to compare
universities, courses or papers.

Doug Hunt

On 19/04/2010, at 4:11 PM, Mike Brown wrote:
> Meh. A sign of the times I know, but how sad that University has
> come to
> equal 'job opportunities'.

Please keep your unhelpful negativity off the list.  Thanks!

Nat
On 19/04/2010, at 4:45 PM, Doug Hunt wrote:
> I am happy to work with someone else or with an organisation to get
> this information opened up but I am not that keen at titling at
> windmills on my own.

Someone will have to build the NZ equivalent of http://unistats.direct.gov.uk
.  If it's not you then it'd have to be the Ministry of Ed.  I'll drop
a note to Bill English pointing out the opportunities here, and I know
there are folks reading from DIA who run data.govt.nz.

And, to be honest, this sounds like the sort of thing that the govt
would be all over.  They want to know they're spending their money in
the right way, and to steer people in directions that lead to
employment and economic growth.  I think they'd welcome the
opportunity to do this.

Cheers;

Nat
An example of how this information could be used if it was available
publicly:

A potential Uni student (Stephanie) wants to do tertiary study and is
somewhat interested in Computing and electronics but doesn't know where to
start.  She pops onto the NZ Tertiary Education comparative web site and
types in "Computing and Electronics".

She gets back a list of 7 university and 12 polytech web sites with courses
that match either computing or electronics.
Some tertiary education institutes list multiple courses and they are at the
Certificate, Diploma and Degree level.

She chooses a local university first and checks out average employment
percentages upon graduation, average salary on graduation and average salary
five years after graduation.  From this she gets the idea that while all
courses have a similar employment profile on graduation, they have
significantly different salary levels, especially 5 years after graduation.

From this she decides to do a degree level course.

She then sets out to compare degree level courses at university A, B & C and
discovers (by checking the paper content and home school of each degree)
that University A offers a Software development stream via the School of
Computing & Maths and a Systems Analysis stream via the Business School,
while university B offers a Computer Science stream via their School of
Computing, and university C offers a mixed Software Development/Electronic
Engineering stream via their School of Engineering.

She checks the fees applicable to each degree and sees that they vary a
little but not that much.

She then looks at average salary on graduation and sees that university B
has the highest salary on graduation but after five years all universities
have similar average salary levels.  University C has the lowest salary
level on graduation, while university A's Software Development degree has an
average graduate salary level that is between the other two and the Systems
Analysis degree from A has a low average salary on graduation.

She then looks at student feedback information for papers in each degree and
notices that a lot of students at university B complain about huge class
sizes and little personal feedback.  The feedback from students at
university C gives the impression that they get to work on interesting
real-life projects and student satisfaction is higher.  She also notices
that while the average graduate salary for students exiting the degree
course at university C are lower than at university B, the average salary
for students who graduate in the upper quartile of marks have a much higher
average salary on graduation and is comparable.

On this basis Stephanie chooses to attend university C to do a mixed
software development/electronics course with some confidence that if she
works hard and gets above average marks then she will be well placed to get
a well paying job after graduating.

Doug Hunt

On 20/04/2010, at 9:14 AM, Ben Copsey wrote:
> I passed your email onto the TEC and recieved the following
> response. I
> understand Che knows Nat and will contact.

Thanks!  I get the feeling Che will get mail about this from a number
of people :-)

Will continue the discussion with Che and Doug off the list.

Cheers;

Nat
Doug, - I think it's an amazing idea. Would Creative Commons licensing for such
data help your cause? You may find this document an interesting development:
http://www.e.govt.nz/policy/information-data/nzgoalframework.html

"Mike
- who did completely unemployable stuff at University"

I did actually find your observation relevant because as someone with a
background in studying and working within the humanities sector, a 'job target'
and 'paycheck' approach does potentially miss some fundamental aspects of a
good education. However, I suggest that these themes can be discussed
elsewhere. www.humanitiesresearch.net would be really interested in any views
you have on this.

Jane :)